tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post115937442905949735..comments2023-08-27T11:02:04.653-04:00Comments on Liberals In Exile: Inter arma, silent leges?Melindahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16138968066861006638noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159547029106117872006-09-29T12:23:00.000-04:002006-09-29T12:23:00.000-04:00The problem, my dear Canardius, is that tyrants li...The problem, my dear Canardius, is that tyrants like George W. Bush can decide that any threat to security, as interpreted by him, is sufficient to curtail the liberties of the American people; the Constitution and international human rights standards be damned. Under the current legislation floating around in Congress, people like me (who openly condemn the president and his tactics, thereby "emboldening the enemy" according to the Bushites) can, by the president's order alone, be declared enemy combatants and stripped of civil liberties, indefinitely imprisoned, tortured, etc. <BR/><BR/>If the United States were to be attacked with nuclear weapons (Heaven forbid.) and roving gangs of radioactive mutants were laying waste to the remains of our society, then obviously, some extralegal measures would be necessary. However, even in that circumstance, the nature of those extralegal measures should still not be in the hands of one man and his lackeys. Absolute power is a thing to be feared and should NEVER be entrusted to one man, unaccountable to the masses and their representatives. The freedoms of the people should NEVER be in the hands of one man or surrendered as anything but a last resort in the most extreme of circumstances. We are NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, in a situation so extreme that our liberties need give way to the national security apparatus or the will of Bush. <BR/><BR/>I would argue that we're not even at war (as no legal declaration of war has been issued since 1941) and that the "war on terror" or "war on terrorism" proves that "war" is a ridiculous weapon to use against an international criminal syndicate with no standing army or state apparatus, a tactic used since the beginning of human history, or to be even more absurdist, a noun. In fact, "war" is making our situation far worse domestically and internationally than it would have been otherwise, especially as it has been used by the tyrants in the executive branch and their "prison bitches" in Congress to curtail the essential freedoms of the American people and to violate the fundamental human rights of the Iraqi people and the thousands of innocents killed/detained by this administration.Melindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16138968066861006638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159452372147881592006-09-28T10:06:00.000-04:002006-09-28T10:06:00.000-04:00Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! ...Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! <BR/>Inter arma enim silent leges<BR/>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<BR/>Jump to: navigation, search<BR/>Inter arma enim silent leges is a Latin phrase meaning "In the face of arms, the law falls mute," although it is more popularly rendered as "In time of war, the laws fall silent." This maxim was likely first written in these words by Cicero in his published oration Pro Milone, although Cicero's actual wording was "Silent enim leges inter arma."<BR/><BR/>At the time when Cicero used this phrase, mob violence was common. Armed gangs led by thuggish partisan leaders controlled the streets of Rome. Such leaders were nevertheless elected to high offices, and maintained close ties to more respectable citizens. One such gang leader, the praetor Titus Annius Milo, was put on trial for the murder of his rival and political enemy, Publius Clodius Pulcher. Milo defended himself by admitting that he was responsible for the illegal killing of Clodius, but that his actions were nevertheless justifiable since Clodius had reportedly been planning to kill him first. Since Cicero was an ally of Milo and archenemy of Clodius, he spoke in Milo's defence before the Senate. Thus Cicero used this maxim to argue that laws should not be strictly observed when a person's life is threatened.<BR/><BR/>In more modern usage, however, it has become a watchword about the erosion of civil liberties during wartime. In the immediate wake of the events of 9/11/2001, the maxim was aired and questioned in the American media with renewed force. The implication of the saying as currently used is that civil liberties and freedoms are subservient (for good or ill) to a wartime nation's duty of self-defense.<BR/><BR/>In 1998 Chief Justice William Rehnquist, in All the Laws but One: Civil Liberties in Wartime suggested that "the least justified of the curtailments of civil liberty" were unlikely to be accepted by the courts in wars of the future. "It is neither desirable nor is it remotely likely that civil liberty will occupy as favored a position in wartime as it does in peacetime. But it is both desirable and likely that more careful attention will be paid by the courts to the basis for the government's claims of necessity as a basis for curtailing civil liberty," the chief justice wrote. "The laws will thus not be silent in time of war, but they will speak with a somewhat different voice."<BR/><BR/>[edit]<BR/>In popular culture<BR/>Fictional references to it in popular media include a 7th-season Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode (called "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"), where a Starfleet Admiral uses it to defend the assassination attempt on the head of the Tal Shiar. An episode of The Practice in 2001 uses it to refer to the imprisonment of Arab Americans during the "War on Terrorism". Declan McCullogh asserts that the Latin tag "encapsulates the supremacy of security over liberty that typically accompanies national emergencies" (ref McCullogh)Canardiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02792279996201488503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159452351662735292006-09-28T10:05:00.000-04:002006-09-28T10:05:00.000-04:00Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! ...Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! <BR/>Inter arma enim silent leges<BR/>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<BR/>Jump to: navigation, search<BR/>Inter arma enim silent leges is a Latin phrase meaning "In the face of arms, the law falls mute," although it is more popularly rendered as "In time of war, the laws fall silent." This maxim was likely first written in these words by Cicero in his published oration Pro Milone, although Cicero's actual wording was "Silent enim leges inter arma."<BR/><BR/>At the time when Cicero used this phrase, mob violence was common. Armed gangs led by thuggish partisan leaders controlled the streets of Rome. Such leaders were nevertheless elected to high offices, and maintained close ties to more respectable citizens. One such gang leader, the praetor Titus Annius Milo, was put on trial for the murder of his rival and political enemy, Publius Clodius Pulcher. Milo defended himself by admitting that he was responsible for the illegal killing of Clodius, but that his actions were nevertheless justifiable since Clodius had reportedly been planning to kill him first. Since Cicero was an ally of Milo and archenemy of Clodius, he spoke in Milo's defence before the Senate. Thus Cicero used this maxim to argue that laws should not be strictly observed when a person's life is threatened.<BR/><BR/>In more modern usage, however, it has become a watchword about the erosion of civil liberties during wartime. In the immediate wake of the events of 9/11/2001, the maxim was aired and questioned in the American media with renewed force. The implication of the saying as currently used is that civil liberties and freedoms are subservient (for good or ill) to a wartime nation's duty of self-defense.<BR/><BR/>In 1998 Chief Justice William Rehnquist, in All the Laws but One: Civil Liberties in Wartime suggested that "the least justified of the curtailments of civil liberty" were unlikely to be accepted by the courts in wars of the future. "It is neither desirable nor is it remotely likely that civil liberty will occupy as favored a position in wartime as it does in peacetime. But it is both desirable and likely that more careful attention will be paid by the courts to the basis for the government's claims of necessity as a basis for curtailing civil liberty," the chief justice wrote. "The laws will thus not be silent in time of war, but they will speak with a somewhat different voice."<BR/><BR/>[edit]<BR/>In popular culture<BR/>Fictional references to it in popular media include a 7th-season Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episode (called "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"), where a Starfleet Admiral uses it to defend the assassination attempt on the head of the Tal Shiar. An episode of The Practice in 2001 uses it to refer to the imprisonment of Arab Americans during the "War on Terrorism". Declan McCullogh asserts that the Latin tag "encapsulates the supremacy of security over liberty that typically accompanies national emergencies" (ref McCullogh)Canardiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02792279996201488503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159452238077663642006-09-28T10:03:00.000-04:002006-09-28T10:03:00.000-04:00oh, a flamen is priest of a roman god, like flamen...oh, a flamen is priest of a roman god, like flamen Martialis was priest of Mars. When Caesar was killed, Antony made an office called flamen Julianis, priest of [the divine] Julius.Canardiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02792279996201488503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159452042536689272006-09-28T10:00:00.000-04:002006-09-28T10:00:00.000-04:00i am not ssure it was M. Tullius Cicero, but will ...i am not ssure it was M. Tullius Cicero, but will check. and i hink it was "laws are silent" -- nominative plural leges. <BR/><BR/>Tiberius Canardius Caesar, flamen MelindisCanardiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02792279996201488503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159381768498247012006-09-27T14:29:00.000-04:002006-09-27T14:29:00.000-04:00Heh... I was thinking of using this one: A matter ...Heh... I was thinking of using this one: A matter of internal security: the age-old cry of the oppressor. Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation Episode: The HuntedMelindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16138968066861006638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20937130.post-1159379868034471332006-09-27T13:57:00.000-04:002006-09-27T13:57:00.000-04:00Don't forget my favorite: "the principles of freed...Don't forget my favorite: "the principles of freedom must apply to everyone, or they are meaningless"- James T. Kirk, <I>The Omega Glory</I>"THE" Rob Ceriohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09264376400794398195noreply@blogger.com